All opinions welcome

[mahogany]

So one of the last arguements that I had with my mother had to do with the issue of race. But before I write all of the gruesome details there are some things you should all know

1. I am socially awkward. Awkward enough that when I was fourteen, a guidance counsellor told me to my face that I was feeling lonely and isolated because (and I quote) I was “socially retarded”.

2. Though I’m awkward, I’ve improved a lot. I have a few very close friends that I’ve known from 10 - 20 years.

3. I often put my foot in my mouth. I laugh too loudly, and I often say the wrong things. The people who are my true friends love me because of this not inspite of it.

4. My mother is also very socially awkward - to a much greater degree than I am.

Okay, so back to my story. My mother was telling me that I should start meeting more Trini people and getting to understand Trini culture better. Sure, no problem.

THEN, she started in that I’m far too much like these Canadians and that I have a lot of ways about me that no self-respecting black person would tolerate (for example the way I keep my house) and that I need to learn how to interact with black people. Eh?

So I said to her, “You’re trying to tell me that there’s a black mentality, which I just don’t believe to be the case. I’ve known black people from the Caribbean, from the US, from Africa, from South America, from Europe, and there are massive cultural differences. How can you possibly tell me that there’s a common black mentality? How do you account for personality differences, and individuality?”

Her response, “Fine N*. Don’t listen. This is why you don’t have friends (um...okay?) and this is why you’re going to have trouble in business - it’s because you refuse to learn. You need to learn about the black mentality and about black people if you want to do business with them.”

So I asked her, “What’s so wrong with just trying to connect with people on an individual basis and trying to let them tell me what they value and take it from there? Why do I have to approach them with preconceived notions? As long as I’m not breaking any cultural taboos, what’s so wrong with my approach?”

She didn’t have an answer, but she was reallly pissed off with me. She told me that the discussion was over.

Comments

[daisan.livejournal.com]

My parents, who are first generation European immigrants, would agree with your mother's point in that argument. To suggest to my dad that not all Maltese are tenacious overachievers and devout Catholics is to impugn a major portion of his personal identity.

But ask me, who was raised in America with American peers, and educated in our socially liberal school system, and I will tell you that people are people; they are themselves and can't be defined by their race, sex, nationality or occupation. I hate my parents opinion. My dad truly believes that no black person could be a football quarterback because "it's a thinking position" and that my husband is good with money because his mother is Jewish. I'd rather get to know someone as themselves without assuming that just because they're Polish, they're hardworkers who like vodka a little too much, even if the two Polish people I know really do fit this description!!

I'd understand if your mom was worried that you were coming across like a person ashamed of their cultural heritage, someone who goes out of their way to speak with a British accent when they're from Iowa, for example, or someone who considers expositions of their culture to be backward or uncivilized. From what I know if you, this certainly isn't the case! Maybe she's just trying to get involved with your life. My dad does that. Everytime I do or say anything, he 'helps' me with his opinion. Translation: tells me what I'm doing wrong and how to do it better. I'm hoping it's not a parenting thing. I don't want to be like that with Kaden.

Just because I'm curious, what is it about your house that a self-respecting black person would find intolerable?

[mahogany.livejournal.com]

Well, a few things. I'm messy by nature. I'm not even talking about the times when my schedule goes haywire and my place gets downright nasty, I'm just talking about normal times when I'm actually able to keep on top of my housework to my satisfaction...I still have troubles with organization. I have a few spots that seem to accumulate things. The top of my piano is a troublesome spot, the top of the fridge, the top of my bookcase - they're all piled high with papers and books, and goodness knows what. Then there's the issue of the top of my dresser it has become the dumping ground for my laundry when I take it out of the drier. This wouldn't be so bad if I folded my stuff right away, but I don't and sometimes the stuff stays there for nearly a week. There's also the issue of my laundry itself. My mother raised me to do laundry a certain way, and frankly, I just don't have the time anymore. For example, I no longer handwash all underwear and socks before tossing it in the washer. I also often wash the children's clothes with ours (she believes that the children's clothes should always be washed seperately), and the one that REALLY grosses my mother out - I wash the kitchen towels with our regular towels and sheets (I can see her point on the last one, a little, but I just don't have the time to be running a seperate load just for kitchen towels).

Other things would include the state of my oven, the usual state of my kitchen floors, since I don't wash them often enough, my under-the-sink area in the kitchen needs some TLC on a more regular basis (I usually wipe down once a week if I'm lucky).

I think that's about it.

[xpashax.livejournal.com]

I'm socially retarded, although the term "retarded" is generally used as an insult these days, all it really means is you aren't as developed in that respect as you ought to be.
This opionion of the term got me into a lot of trouble with my second girlfriend who was technically retarded (very very light case of Williams Syndrome) and got pissy whenever I used the term in any regard. ;-)

As for the black mentality, it might be helpful to look at it the way I look at evolution. I don't believe that evolution is necessarily true, but it can be a useful fiction. If understanding the black american mentality helps you in business, then it might be worth looking into, even if it's bullshit.

I just find this interesting because yesterday I was listening to NPR and this dude (who used the term "we" a lot, so i'm assuming he's black based on the content) was doing this whole talk about the modern black mentality and how black people today tend to be more pessemistic (he specifically referenced a youth he talked to who claimed he had to breakdance every day or he'd get into drugs, the speaker lamented this attitude that the youth didn't think he could resist drugs without such a crutch), mainly because they're more aware of racism, but view it as something that blocks them from success in life rather than an inconvenience. Before Martin Luther King's time, black culture was more optomistic when people weren't as aware of the disparity between the classes (and obviously, the races).

I got to the store at that point, so I didn't hear the rest of what he had to say, but I just found it interesting to hear you and your mom had been talking about this shortly after I heard that on the radio. *shrug*


I too would like to know what it is about your house that a self-respecting black person would find intolerable?

[mahogany.livejournal.com]

Well, a few things. I'm messy by nature. I'm not even talking about the times when my schedule goes haywire and my place gets downright nasty, I'm just talking about normal times when I'm actually able to keep on top of my housework to my satisfaction...I still have troubles with organization. I have a few spots that seem to accumulate things. The top of my piano is a troublesome spot, the top of the fridge, the top of my bookcase - they're all piled high with papers and books, and goodness knows what. Then there's the issue of the top of my dresser it has become the dumping ground for my laundry when I take it out of the drier. This wouldn't be so bad if I folded my stuff right away, but I don't and sometimes the stuff stays there for nearly a week. There's also the issue of my laundry itself. My mother raised me to do laundry a certain way, and frankly, I just don't have the time anymore. For example, I no longer handwash all underwear and socks before tossing it in the washer. I also often wash the children's clothes with ours (she believes that the children's clothes should always be washed seperately), and the one that REALLY grosses my mother out - I wash the kitchen towels with our regular towels and sheets (I can see her point on the last one, a little, but I just don't have the time to be running a seperate load just for kitchen towels).

Other things would include the state of my oven, the usual state of my kitchen floors, since I don't wash them often enough, my under-the-sink area in the kitchen needs some TLC on a more regular basis (I usually wipe down once a week if I'm lucky).

I think that's about it.

[xpashax.livejournal.com]

As far as I'm concerned, if you put it in the washing machine, it comes out clean. So it doesn't matter if I put working on the car stuff in with normal day cloths.

Though I do make sure to throw my one or two white t-shirts in with all my black shit with the express hope of making them a little darker. ;-)

[gezellig-girl.livejournal.com]

Well, I haven't any answers for you on the race questions, but I have to say -- for someone socially awkward, you were really quite eloquent and articulate in that argument. I know I wouldn't have held up as well.

[mahogany.livejournal.com]

I guess it's something I feel strongly about. I've fought my whole life (well, not really, but certainly at various points in my life) to be considered as just me, and not as an accumulation of stereotypes. I've always felt that just because a person knows one or two things about my background doesn't mean they know me necessarily or what makes me tick. To know me, they'd actually have to give a damn and ask me what I think. So when I hear my mother encouraging me to paint an entire group of people with the same brush - an attitude that I find out and out repugnant - I get pretty fired up.

[gypsyqyn.livejournal.com]

Hi I just have to say your comment there really spoke out to me. I hate it when people find the need to 'pigeon hole' me into a certain category. I usually get fired up too!

[avonleahser.livejournal.com]

I highly doubt it. I've known several black people all from the very same town who were extremely diverse. I'm not sure where your mom is getting this. Could it be a generational thing?

[mahogany.livejournal.com]

It might be. She's almost 60, so it could very well be a generational thing, I'm not really sure where she gets it from to be honest.

In my professional opinion...

[spellboy.livejournal.com]

Your mum has some issues!

You are fine socially. Guidance counsellors in really shouldn't be allowed to dispense advise. I've never met one that actually gave me or anyone i know decent advise. You wouldn't be in the field were you are now if you were socially retarded. I've met socially retarded people. You aren't even close!

You grew up in Canada. Of course you're going to act/think/be like a Canadian. It's insane to think you would act otherwise. Acting like a Canadian is considered to be a good thing in several different parts of the world.

As for the idea of a black mentality, I think it seriously underestimates the individual differences of people in a population. I think you handled your mum well. I don't think there was any sort of right answer to what she was demanding.

Re: In my professional opinion...

[mahogany.livejournal.com]

I just hope that my feelings of wanting to display my wisdom, and share the benefits of my life experience don't overshadow my willingness to keep an open mind and really listen to my children (and possibly even *gasp* learn something new from my children) when they're adults.

[tomcan.livejournal.com]

Some parents need to be merely 'patted on the head' and dismissed (speaking as one who's avoided 'dismissal'). And after all these years of listening to my kids, I'm still learning. I have no doubt that you will too.
(We have a mutual LJ friend - an ex-Vancouverite now living in Brazil)

[mahogany.livejournal.com]

So true. So true. And part of the conflict lies in my inability to recognize (or accept) when I need to do this and just walk away. I tend to be quite argumentative and have an overwhelming need to be right :-). I guess it's something I need to release or it won't be long before I'm on the receiving end of the dismissal.

I took a peek at your journal. Congratulations. It's a beautiful thing to be happily married for forty years.

Re: our mutual friend. I've only just added him. I stumbled across his journal entirely by accident, and I must say that there's something very poetic and engaging (yet honest and not at all pretentious) about his writing.

"First we give them roots - then we give them wings ...."

[tomcan.livejournal.com]

Yes, it's beautiful - and how about that grandson?

And Glen was 'the kid next door' in North Van in the 80's/90's ... who has ventured to some fascinating places - Chile, Argentina, my hometown, Montreal, and now Brasil - in recent years. We'll get to read his books one day!

Take care

Re: "First we give them roots - then we give them wings ...."

[mahogany.livejournal.com]

Yes, it's beautiful - and how about that grandson?

He's gorgeous! Absolutely gorgeous!