(no subject)

[mahogany]

I guess this is partially inspired by the trip to Metrotown I took with my mother on the weekend (she’s visiting, so that’s why I haven’t been online). I hadn’t been there in a couple of years, and I was totally blown away by the amount of consumption that I saw. Maybe I was tired, or cranky, so it affected me differently, but I started to sweat and get a headache just from being there.

The whole thing was just so vulgar. The lights, and the frenetic shopping, and the disposability of everything that is being made now, and the attitude toward consumption was just too much for me. And I got hit with the overwhelming sense that this cannot keep up. Things have changed so much in the last ten years. As much as environmental consciousness has made some inroads, it seems like our consumption is growing at a much faster pace. And our planet just can’t sustain it, not to mention it just gave me a really weird feeling. And then, there was the self serve counter at the grocery store. It’s completely automatic. No human contact - not even at the grocery store.

So anyhow, I started thinking about the space that we have here in Canada that we take completely for granted. We do dumbass shit like clear cut mountains to make room for rows and rows of generic single family homes. What is it about our cuture that causes us to think sprawl rather than building up? Why aren’t we creating more walkable areas, and more density? Sure there are towers going up everywhere, but the square footage is on par with some closets. Seriously. For anyone with a larger family, it’s simply out of the question, and I want to know why that is? Admittedly there are some apartments that are larger, but they’re over $2 million.

Clearly there is no market for larger, family apartments in the city - I figure if the demand was present then developers would be building them. The way things work out here is that people with kids either buy townhouses, or they buy single family homes in suburban hell, and then spend three hours a day commuting. My husband and I can’t even agree - even in theory. I say apartment, and good location. He says house and backyard with crappy location. Sigh.

[Poll #785210]

Comments

[garpu.livejournal.com]

The two biggest problems with apartments are landlords and noise. If there were no landlords and decent noise insulation, it wouldn't be so bad. But the second I can afford to buy something, I'm doing it.

and the award for worst survey design goes to...

[mahogany.livejournal.com]

Oh man, I'm so fuzzy brained today. By apartment, I'm referring to apartment style condos that people generally own. So I guess my poll should have specified that I was referring to ownership across the board.

Re: and the award for worst survey design goes to...

[garpu.livejournal.com]

Hm. If it were just the noise issue, I don't know if I'd change. I'm the type of sleeper who sleeps very soundly, but if I'm woken up, I'm up for all eternity. That, and noise ordinances aren't exactly enforced here. If there were no possible way I could hear any trace of my neighbors, and the cops actually did something about noise, then I'd change mine to a maybe.

[toesontheground.livejournal.com]

I think one important thing whether in a townhouse or apartment, if you have children, is ease of access to outside play areas/park nearby.

Good sound insulation helps too - we have the technology now, it should be standard, but it isn't - money I guess...

[mahogany.livejournal.com]

A lot of the apartment/condos being built around here are very well insulated and sound proof. I'd say that sound transfer is much more of a problem in a woodframe builing like a townhouse than in a concrete apartment.

[kishiriadgr.livejournal.com]

Since I'm childfree, I don't think in terms of putting a family in an apartment. In older neighbourhoods, particularly in Quebec, you find HUGE apartments, like 5 bedroom ones. That was clearly too much apartment for me and Don, but it was very possible to have a family in there.

Now I think builders figure family = house so they don't build apartments for families. Personally, I like apartments because I hate doing lawn work.

[mahogany.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. They don't have as many of those here on the West Coast, and I'm not entirely sure why. It bugs me though...

[lovejunk.livejournal.com]

I will cop to being very opinionated on this subject. Environmental issues aside (not that I don't think they're important as well), I am not a fan of suburban culture.

Single family housing promotes detachment from community, promotes car usage (and decreases pedestrian/bike trips), promotes the idea that one playground set per family yard is more desirable than a shared space where you do NOT get to pick who your kids are 'exposed' to. Not that these things are inevitable in suburbia, but that they are easy to slip into.

I also am a firm believer that you fill up whatever space you have, whether you need stuff or not. We're 4 people in a 700 sqft apartment, and we're fine. If we had another 200 sqft we'd probably buy a coffee table, because we could. Or another shelf because otherwise it would look empty. Then we'd buy more things to put on the shelves or on the table. Because we could, and otherwise it would seem empty. Another room would mean another bed, or desk, a rug, decor, shelves, storage... Lots of things we live quite happily without.

I hope I'm not coming off as hippier than thou here- we do our share of consumption. We buy electrtonic toys because we love them. We still drive a car (though our time in it is relatively small given where we live). We are un-frugal when it comes to groceries and eating out. There are lots of things I'd like to improve on both in terms of economics and environment.

And we're lucky to live in a very un-sprawled city by North American standards. The Vancouver downtown core has less vehicle traffic than it did 10 years ago, and we have more pedestrian trips than any other NA city besides NYC. But as long as TV keeps telling us we're irresponsible if we don't raise our kids with a picket fence and a 2 car garage, hell yeah there's still gonna be demand for commuter developments.

Heh, sorry for the lengthy rant. This is one of the topics where I can't resist a little zealotry. Plus hey, our coop's waiting list is relatively short- come be my neighbour! :)

[mahogany.livejournal.com]

I HEAR you.

On the plus side, there have been a lot of strides toward making the downtown core and certain areas of the west side more pedestrian friendly and vehicle unfriendly, which is awesome. But on the minus side, many of the new developments going up downtown and on the West Side are very tiny and adult oriented, and it's almost like it's sending the message that "Children aren't welcome here", or at the very least, larger familes aren't welcome and that really bugs me.

[abigailvr.livejournal.com]

I am somewhat biased about townhomes, since I live in one. I like that we have a small patio of our own and there is a common space that someone else maintains. Of course, one of the reasons we bought this house is because it within walking distance of our downtown, which I really like.

[zinababies.livejournal.com]

I live in a townhome too, and our house backed into a large common area which was great for kids. Also we had very convenient access to a pool.

[mahogany.livejournal.com]

Well, we may well end up in a townhome (possibly one of the reasons that I'm ranting and raving right now).

But I guess I'm really concerned with the way that Vancouver is developing. There's a lot of new construction going up, but we're talking spaces with 400-700 sq ft. That's just not attractive to families. So what do people do? They move further out of the city to get a liveable amount of space. I'm irked by the lack of choice, and what appears to be a decreasing lack of choice, and a general mentality that supports suburban culture over density. The suburbs will always exist, and I'm okay with that. What upsets me is that those of us that would like to have more than one or two children, but also live close to the city and within walking distance of stuff, have very limited options and possibilities of doing so.

[abigailvr.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, I see what you're saying. Our house is not very big but I think I'm done having kids so I don't think it will be an issue for a while.

[jessicaem.livejournal.com]

I didn't fill out the poll. I'll echo that sound insulation is important to me, too. In the apartment where we live, the kids upstairs sometimes just run back and forth very loudly, and I try not to be bothered (they're just kids), but sometimes it bothers me. On the other side of the coin, I had some friends over, and we sang karaoke late into the night, and I'm not sure if it bothered my neighbors, but if I were them, I would have been bothered.

Also, my husband wants to have a garage where he can work on his projects (like the car he's going to drag home one of these days) and keep his tools, and that's not something you find in an apartment or apartment-style condo thing. Plus, my husband likes doing yard work!

On the other hand, we both much prefer a less-suburban atmosphere, but affordable housing is sometimes hard to come by in areas like that. It's a bit of a catch 22.

[mahogany.livejournal.com]

It's a total catch 22. But then again, I think this situation is fuelled by demand. If there were a demand for unique solutions that enabled people to be close to the city but still have things like a garage, then I think that someone would find a way to fill the niche, but the demand isn't there (or it's just insignificant enough not to matter). Sigh. But it matters to me, damn it! :-P

[daisan.livejournal.com]

I personally find the aesthetic of apartments very displeasing. They are big boxes with windows. Yeah, you can do creative stuff inside, but still, you're faced with a sterile hallway whenever you come in or out of your space. Plus, you put a bunch of people in a concentrated area, and you get pollution, smog, traffic...all things that people take vacations to escape from.

So I'm all about a house in the country or a mixed development area where you have a downtown (train accessible) with shops, restaurants and businesses, surrounded by a residential area with communal parks. This is where a townhome style residence would be cool: people get their own backyard to garden in and a private space of their own, but it's not a huge waste of land.

That being said, I HATE suburban sprawl where all the houses look the same and you have to drive to get anywhere. I grew up in a neighborhood where I could bike to the library, beach, train and movie theater. That's ideal.

[mahogany.livejournal.com]

The neighbourhood that you grew up in sounds ideal. Those neighbourhoods still exist here in Vancouver, to a certain extent, but many young families can't afford the $1 million plus to purchase a home in those neighbourhoods. So the result is suburban sprawl. Generic houses, big box stores, huge parking lots....it's totally repulsive.

You're right, aparments can be very ugly from the outside...though I don't actually mind some of them. I've seen some areas in cities like Montréal where there are brick aparments with wrought iron, and window boxes, and french doors. I suppose they're just boxes, but there's something about them that appeals to me.

A lot of people love mixed residential areas, but it's just not happening, and I don't understand why. Well, actually I do understand why - we have so much space that we take for granted that we don't feel the need to plan the city better. I suspect that things like mixed residential areas come about through necessity, which I think is a real shame.

It's upsetting to me that we would wait until we need to make a change, rather than making it now, just because it's a good idea.