mahogany: (Default)
mahogany ([personal profile] mahogany) wrote2007-03-01 09:44 am

Insults

There’s something that strikes me as really passive aggresive about the behaviour of people that will switch to foreign languange in order to say something offensive or insulting in the presense of another person (and no, I’m not suggesting that everytime, or even most of the time people switch to another language they are doing this, but this situation does occasionally happen).

On the one hand, if we are intending to hurt someone’s feelings or let them know our displeasure, we would just say what’s on our minds to their face. If we don’t want to rock the boat, very often we’ll wait until they’ve left to complain about them. No, it’s not very nice behaviour to speak ill of someone behind their back, but hey, I’ll admit that I’ve done it.

So is switching to another language to make those comments while the person is still there, listening, and not understanding a word they’re saying the same as making those same comments behind their backs? Personally, I don’t think so. There seems to be someone thing really smug and self-satisfied about the whole thing that really rubs me the wrong way.

And so what happens when you actually understand what thev’re said because you randomly happen to understand the language that they’re speaking? Do you say something? Do you mentally note that they’re assholes, and say nothing? And if you do say something, do you directly address the insult, or do you switch to their language and politely say good-bye, leaving them to die of embarrassment as they realize you’ve just understood every word?

[identity profile] tracied.livejournal.com 2007-03-01 06:11 pm (UTC)(link)
do you directly address the insult, or do you switch to their language and politely say good-bye, leaving them to die of embarrassment as they realize you’ve just understood every word?

AMEN!

[identity profile] xpashax.livejournal.com 2007-03-01 06:32 pm (UTC)(link)
This would be my answer as well

[identity profile] tatianne.livejournal.com 2007-03-01 07:21 pm (UTC)(link)
This exact thing happened to my first roommate in college. She was a beautiful girl, long blond hair, blue eyes, olive skin, a ballerina with the body to go with it, etc, etc. She hardly looked like she had been born in Puerto Rico... We were doing laundry in the dorm one night, 6 floors down from our room, and while we were sitting there some Spanish speaking girls were being rather catty & nasty about her right in front of her. She ignored them the whole time. When we were ready to head back upstairs she said a single sentence of good-bye to them in the fluent spanish that she spoke. Truly priceless. Of course I didn't know any of it until we were back upstairs where I doubled over in laughter. :)

[identity profile] mahogany.livejournal.com 2007-03-02 08:25 am (UTC)(link)
That's just beautiful! Good for her.
(deleted comment)

[identity profile] mahogany.livejournal.com 2007-03-02 08:39 am (UTC)(link)
I agree, there are certinaly more expressive languages than English for vulgar come-ons, insults and colourful swearing.

[identity profile] daisan.livejournal.com 2007-03-01 09:23 pm (UTC)(link)
On that last paragraph:

My very tall, very skinny uncle was in Germany as a youth, touring around and seeing the sights. On a bus one day, he sat beside a couple who began speaking Croatian to each other, his native tongue.

"Get a load of this beanpole beside us!" says the wife. "He'll have a hard time finding a wife. Do you think he got caught in an elevator when it was on it's way up?"

He didn't say anything.

A little while later, they leaned over to him, polite as you please, and asked in German, "Excuse me, what time is it?"

He smiled and answered in Croatian. "4:30."

[identity profile] abigailvr.livejournal.com 2007-03-01 10:31 pm (UTC)(link)
That is priceless!

I agree that letting them know you understood without directly addressing the insult is the best way to go.

[identity profile] mahogany.livejournal.com 2007-03-02 08:28 am (UTC)(link)
That's priceless. And the beauty of the whole thing is that they would have had to spend the rest of the train sitting next to him in what I imagine was incredibly painful silence (well, painful for them at any rate, I'm sure your uncle probably felt pretty good).

[identity profile] catdraco.livejournal.com 2007-03-01 11:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Along similar lines is one of my husband's pet peeves when working as an interpreter. Doctors are the worst for it - they'll turn to my husband and say, "Oh, don't interpret this bit," then keep talking in front of the patient.

Of course, my husband then signs "he said, 'don't interpret this bit'" to the client, then continues interpreting whatever the doctor is saying. When the doctor notices, and gets shirty, and asks, "What are you doing?" my husband simply says, "My job."

He then explains that if they want to discuss something in private, then they pay his client the same courtesy as any other patient, and leave the room. Which amuses my husband no end (he loves telling off doctors) and irritates arrogant doctors immensely (also a source of enjoyment for my husband).

[identity profile] mahogany.livejournal.com 2007-03-02 08:33 am (UTC)(link)
So I'm curious about something - is Aslan a completely different language from American Sign Language, or are they similar enough that a person signing in ASL could communicate (albeit probably imperfectly) with a person signing in Aslan?

[identity profile] catdraco.livejournal.com 2007-03-02 08:51 am (UTC)(link)
Auslan is a different language. Auslan incorporates some ASL signs - Auslan is an interesting language in its development. It's primarily evolved from BSL (British Sign Language) of the 1800s. They're now two distinct languages, but there's a lot of overlap (so much so that a Level III Auslan interpreter can work as a Level II BSL interpreter with just a few weeks experience in BSL). However, Auslan also has some basis in Irish Sign Langauge.

I think ASL is related to ISL. They both use a one-handed alphabet, which isn't used in BSL. However, due to the influence of ISL in Australia, although Auslan uses a two handed alphabet, it also uses one-handed letter signs to develop other signs. Partly because of this, and partly because the US has a highly developed Deaf culture (including a Deaf University: many Australian and other foreign students study there if they can, it's just such a great institution), Auslan has absorbed some ASL signs and conventions.

In general, sign languages are different languages. They take on some aspects of their 'host' language (the spoken language of the country), but they have many similarities with other sign languages. They tend to have similar grammatical structures, and some signs are obviously symbolic. So, while the sign for "spoon" will be different between sign languages, in a lot of languages the sign will be representative in some way of using a spoon.

So the inherent similarities between sign languages mean that native signers can often become conversational very quickly in other sign languages - much more quickly than learning a spoken language. According to one of my Auslan teachers, reasonably good communication between signers in different languages can occur within a conversation - it has its limits, of course, but she says it doesn't take long to 'click' into another mode of signing.

Does that make sense?

[identity profile] mahogany.livejournal.com 2007-03-03 08:15 am (UTC)(link)
Makes complete sense. Thank you. I'm going to file that away in recesses of my brain along with many other "assorted tidbits of information about things that interest me for no apparent reason, that I'll probably never use, but wanted to know about anyhow."

[identity profile] catdraco.livejournal.com 2007-03-03 08:19 am (UTC)(link)
To add to the pile of useless information, there is also an International Sign Language. It's used primarily for things like big international conferences, the Deaflympics, that sort of thing. I guess it's a sign version of Esperanto, but not so esoteric.

[identity profile] pouringsand.livejournal.com 2007-03-20 02:51 am (UTC)(link)
This was a very interesting comment thread, incidentally. Thanks for the education! :D

[identity profile] pouringsand.livejournal.com 2007-03-20 02:51 am (UTC)(link)
I can't help but call them on it with a choice response in their language. I have also been known to just respond in English to whatever it is they've said... there is still that horrified shock when they realise I've understood them. I think it's very ill-mannered to switch to another language just to talk about someone as if they're not even there, and discomfiting rude people has never really troubled my conscience much. ;)

[identity profile] pouringsand.livejournal.com 2007-03-20 02:57 am (UTC)(link)
I will add to this... I do think it's ill-mannered. But I'll confess to having done it, too. And I would feel properly shamed to be caught as above.